@oldnapalm Nice to hear,
Also i want to ask: how come in some areas, despite of (20,30) veh, ped lim, the Ped/Veh still gets exceeded in some areas but not all (31,32,...even 50,60 if the player continues to spawn)? (I saw that they aren't removed also)
@oldnapalm An idea for Player sync:
- I wonder if it's possible to only sync other Player in a radius (to see more FPS boost). Say about 200-400m so that if they get out of that radius, their player's model, peds/veh won't be synced at all. (Ex: even if server has 12 players but you are around 2 players, only those 2 will be synced, the other 10 will be synced on map but not others like model/ped/veh,...)
**FPS ped sync:
- Denise house, idling Frank player, FPS dropped to 30s
36(30-37)/21(me), 15/7(him). This might be the mod not dividing the Ped count possibly.
- Different session, Denise house, 4 players (me included),
31/21, 7/5 (for all 3 others). FPS in low 40 despite being about 2km away from them.
I teleported to their location (near Mike house), my synced ped dropped to 4.
- Other session, same area:
31/21, 6/6, 10/6. Again despite both players in Mike house area, FPS in mid 40
- Same session, Little Seoul, near a Franklin Agency:
31/21, 8/6, 10/6. FPS: low to mid 40
- Inside Mike house, 1 idler: 15/21, 9/10, FPS: hi 30 to 50
- It seems like from Denise area, to Arena War stadium, to Airport, with 2 players, is particularly
laggy, my Ped synced stayed in 30s while the other got 6-7. When mine dipped down to 12, while other
2 stayed at 7, FPS rose to 40. Then theirs (2 players) ped synced, rose to 10, FPS is in 30-35
- Hospital, Strawberry, with 5 players in 1km radius, FPS can dip to hi 30 when driving/riding.
Ped synced can go to 40, with mine about 30. When synced Ped is in 20 total (mine: 12), FPS rose to
60
- Outside Army Base, with Tanks inside the Base, FPS can dip to 41,
Ped Sync: 31, 7 (3 others)
**Repair loop:
- It might have stopped as i ran through another Player car (no one's in it), the door broke but
didnt auto-repair
- Running into a Player car, it looked trashed but then he got out of the car, tried to explode it
the car now auto-repaired and looked like new condition now.
- No repeated broken window seen so far
@oldnapalm Glad to have you back.
Important note for the logs above:
- FPS drops significantly when Ped/Veh reaches 40-50s
- Vehicle can go to 50-60s. A way to delete earliest spawned Vehicles (or Even peds) (like First in First out type) once the limit is reached, might help FPS
- Dupes (Ped/Veh)still happen, just a minor reminder.
mid 50 FPS, no player around me, Vinewood Boulevard,
intersection, near a Nightclub
Saw Some vehicles 2-5 cars
Raton Cayon bridge, next 1 player, with 3 car scrap,
low to mid 50s
Random Event, North Chumash, with 2 players near,
It was a Stolen Pink car, it got duped, 1 was moving (Red icon)
,1 was not moving on the road, no driver.
Pillbox Hill, near the Weed Guy square, 1 player nearby,
it had 2 intersections, so 1 had cars, about 3-4 cars,
the other one was empty/Ghost Towny.
20/21 (me), 3/3 (other Player)
Davis, Franklin Garage, near Groove Street and Convenient Store, saw 1-2 cars
FPS was in hi 40 to 60s
Same area, near Train tracks, 2 train dupes, only 1 ped vehicle seen
8/21 (me)
3 players, 1 killed 2 with Grenade Launcher, their car exploded, FPS
dipped to 20-30, then back to mid 50 with me and 1 guy
Going up to that area, intersection near Train track, 3 cars seen.
Strip Club intersection, 3 players near me, 2-4 cars seen,
2-3 seems to spawn in distance, less frequently closeby.
FPS: hi 40 to 50s
**Corpse note:
FPS drop at first, after teleporting to Sandy Shore Hospital, about 7 to 17 then 20,
then rose to high 40 and 50
10(me),4,22,2,3 (Ped)
There were 4 players in here.
Player respawned in Hospital, Bunch of corpses spawned, they werent floating.
11 corpses spawned with 4 of them being Big Fish, 1 Panther.
Turning back, 1 corpse was floating, 19 corpses were spawned
the previous 11 didnt disappear.
This time Z list, one player had 47/1 synced.
It went to 57 then 80/1 synced, FPS is now from hi 30 to hi 20.
Bunch of corpses eveywhere.
Now the Z of the player is 95/4
For the server: 5/114/38
Dis-re-con removed all the corpses and FPS went to low 40
The player kept spawning a bunch of dead peds
He dropped a molotov on the corpses, FPS went to hi 20s
Now his sync: 69/4
**Mission:
Got to play Union Depot with other player,
Teled to Strip Club, it was in 30s at first then got to 50s
Cant see any Swats during the underground fight with him.
But i could see the crew member along Frank.
Synced Z showed: 2/2 to 5/5 for him
Dis-re-con didnt spawn them
Mike fight, i can see some cops
But sometimes none spawns but i can see helis w/o peds
Dis-re-con showed 4 cops in the drive way
Crew member will shoot u.
Couldnt see any cops but 1 time 2 cars roll on driveway
but their cars spit out doors
Getting in the getaway car, since i cant see Mike but only Frank,
sitting on the Front passenger, the Player said Mike was trying to get me out
so got into the back seat.
I can see Taliana/Other Pilot Heli during Trev part at first but i cant see
that 2nd heli, the Lester RPG part, but 3 Buzzards seen.
Final cutscene, i can see 2 Lesters
**Other:
In car with player through South of Denise house area, sudden FPS drop to 20
probably random event (i saw red dot)
He did say he cant see cars, he was driving, only sidewalk peds
Ran into a truck, him in passenger, still said he couldnt see
He said he had -1, i told him to set 20,30. Now he said he could see
We went to Strip Club, FPS is in 40s inside
He also said to see doubles Peds like me.
Player blew himself in Hospital, respawned, bunch of Peds spawning with him
It was me and the player, 1 other joined with 22 synced ped, FPS went from 60 ish to 40s
if i remember, this could be wrong.
I got booted, in passenger with the player, 2 times in 1 instance
Can see 6 cops from player POV, Hawick near Casino bridge, FPS was high 50 to 60
Then another player connected, FPS is now in 40s
Army Base player can see soldiers and cars, mid 30 to 50 fps.
Many tanks caused FPS drop to 30s
Prison, outside, FPS is in mid 30s, 66 NPCS total
44/22 and 24/6 me & him
Mounted weapons from passenger can shoot enemies but anims wont be synced
Went to the grassy area, 40 NPCS, now FPS is 40-50 ranged
**Long stretch Mission:
I can see both Lamar and Stretch during gun store and the Car ride from Ammu to factory now
See 2 Ds in cutscene
Can only see few enemies 1-3 each segment
Can see L and Str during the getaway but
Player tried jacking a car, dead guy is still inside the driver seat
so his body is "left behind". Took a while for him to appear
A cat was on the sidewalk, only i saw it, the other player said
he couldnt.
We returned to Frank's car, there was still a female ped, holding RPG,
floating, walking in the air.
Another player left so she disappeared.
The player reconnected, he can chat with me but its invisible.
Dis-re-con worked.
**Cleaning Bureau Setup:
Cutscene, Haines, Les, Norton visible, saw Haines moving too
but was in stand still anim.
Can see the janitor spawning and see Player tailing him.
**Bureau mission:
Can see cat now, 2 dupes.
Heli part (stealth), i try getting on and but player said it will fail
the mission (Crew abandoned, as Frank's not visible, i'm on his seat)
Fight on roof, no NPCs seen.
Dis-re-con spawned 1 FBI, 1 swat, the corpses spawned too
Occasionally 1 NPC popped out
Burnt buidling, only saw 2 FBI (burnt guys)
I passed near Crew member and was launched away
After zipline to ground, only saw 1 guard, killed him, this corpse T pose
Near the Player, near Highway towards LSIA, mid 55 fps
Intersection nearby, near Benny garage, no players now,
at first, i couldnt see cars but eventually it spawned
1-3, at most 5. Z list: was 6-15/23, hi 70 to mid 80s
Drop-top car, gets blinking top, when Player was shooting
at it, with me sitting in it.
This was Vinewood Hills, FPS: hi 70- mid 80
Infinite-door, still happens as i tried to ran through the
Player spawned car, he was not in it though, but the Car
still gets auto-fixed hence, the doors still split out
Saw the Player killing 2 peds in a car, likely the peds are synced.
it was 9-8(or10) ped split between and him, this was hi 50 to 60,
we were driving too
West Vinewood (the Upper road of LS, near an Online Nightclub),
it reached mid 40s, Ped went up 31/21 from (9 before on
the wind part)
Los Santos LSC, low to hi 40, Despite 6/21 (me) and 7/21 (other 1 player),
In a 400m radius (further player), with 1 player in my car, 1player 100m away, about 21
peds, like 6-8 split between 4 player, FPS was low 50
Mission Row, Police station was 40-50 fluctation.
Depending on area in LS, you will get high 40 vs mid 50 to 60
Like below the Rockford Hospital intersection, w/1 player, dipped to low 40
but when you went to the Highway, it was in 50s
A player teleported to me, he was invisible, dis-re-con made him appear.
**Mission:
Testing Simeon "Repo" mission, i can see Simeon and the customer spawning.
I was Michael this time, i saw him killing the Gardener, and my World Jimmy
Saw 2 Traceys, 1 from mine, other from his.
And the Tennis guy and Manda.
The player did kill Jimmy (mine), before entering the house, so i couldnt
see any Jims in his room
Saw Player turning to Michael, him
and Simeon Fighting(just the Simeon Standing, and the Player going towards him)
2 Simeons spawn at one point, probably cutscene,
then FPS dipped to 30s, after his Mission Completed
despite 5 and 7 peds with me and the player.
Back at Mike house, it was hi 60s outside, but in 40s inside
Father/SOn
I could see the Truck with the Boat, but, so i tried dis-re-con
the Truck disappeared but the Player also restarted, so i could see
The Truck again
FPS drop on highway around Fame or Shame stadium, 30 ish
I could see the Truck and Jimmy floating. But the Player restarted
(i hit floating Jimmy once), the truck was invisible, only floating
Jim and enemy (2 guys also floating)
FPS when teleport back to Mike house hi 20 to low 30
There were 6 peds standing still in front of the gate but inside the house
land (2 swats, 2 merryweather, 2 morgue workers).
I started union depot heist, during the underground fight (Aggressive), the Player
said he couldnt see me.
**floating corpses:
1 Floating corpse seen, from other Player seen, it wasnt circling, but still float
The body wasnt on the ground, but it wasnt circling.
5mods on Discord
@oldnapalm Nice to hear,
Also i want to ask: how come in some areas, despite of (20,30) veh, ped lim, the Ped/Veh still gets exceeded in some areas but not all (31,32,...even 50,60 if the player continues to spawn)? (I saw that they aren't removed also)
@oldnapalm An idea for Player sync:
- I wonder if it's possible to only sync other Player in a radius (to see more FPS boost). Say about 200-400m so that if they get out of that radius, their player's model, peds/veh won't be synced at all. (Ex: even if server has 12 players but you are around 2 players, only those 2 will be synced, the other 10 will be synced on map but not others like model/ped/veh,...)
"Veh Repair Loop" Version Log 1:
**FPS ped sync:
- Denise house, idling Frank player, FPS dropped to 30s
36(30-37)/21(me), 15/7(him). This might be the mod not dividing the Ped count possibly.
- Different session, Denise house, 4 players (me included),
31/21, 7/5 (for all 3 others). FPS in low 40 despite being about 2km away from them.
I teleported to their location (near Mike house), my synced ped dropped to 4.
- Other session, same area:
31/21, 6/6, 10/6. Again despite both players in Mike house area, FPS in mid 40
- Same session, Little Seoul, near a Franklin Agency:
31/21, 8/6, 10/6. FPS: low to mid 40
- Inside Mike house, 1 idler: 15/21, 9/10, FPS: hi 30 to 50
- It seems like from Denise area, to Arena War stadium, to Airport, with 2 players, is particularly
laggy, my Ped synced stayed in 30s while the other got 6-7. When mine dipped down to 12, while other
2 stayed at 7, FPS rose to 40. Then theirs (2 players) ped synced, rose to 10, FPS is in 30-35
- Hospital, Strawberry, with 5 players in 1km radius, FPS can dip to hi 30 when driving/riding.
Ped synced can go to 40, with mine about 30. When synced Ped is in 20 total (mine: 12), FPS rose to
60
- Outside Army Base, with Tanks inside the Base, FPS can dip to 41,
Ped Sync: 31, 7 (3 others)
**Repair loop:
- It might have stopped as i ran through another Player car (no one's in it), the door broke but
didnt auto-repair
- Running into a Player car, it looked trashed but then he got out of the car, tried to explode it
the car now auto-repaired and looked like new condition now.
- No repeated broken window seen so far
@oldnapalm
Glad to have you back.
Important note for the logs above:
- FPS drops significantly when Ped/Veh reaches 40-50s
- Vehicle can go to 50-60s. A way to delete earliest spawned Vehicles (or Even peds) (like First in First out type) once the limit is reached, might help FPS
- Dupes (Ped/Veh)still happen, just a minor reminder.
"Ped Workaround" Version Log 2:
Police Station, mission Row, 9-10 police, FPS in 40s
Player using Minigun, moving, sometimes, his anim will T-pose
3 players near, Hospital Rockford, 49 NPCs total, 30/21 from me
1-3 from others, FPS in mid 40
Same area, 19 NPCs total now, no cars passing by,
37 npcs, FPS in mid 30 now
Hospital Strawberry, NPCs went into 39, FPS is hi 30s
One player was in a Truck, it got flipped and exploded but
it just duped 2 car scraps, 1 normal version and the Player
was moving another normal truck
C4ing a Player, he spawned a bunch of his trucks, Vehicle went
up to 50 to 65, FPS dropped to low 30s
Dis-re-con gained 10 fps, resetted vehicle to 35
Pillbox Hospital, FPS in 40, 3 players and few cops
18 peds, 33 vehicles, no NPC car passing by
Invisible player, visible car still seen
Del Perro, near Gun store,39p/25v, total
31/21 for me, 1/0 for idle player
When it reaches 40-50 ped/vehicle, is when it starts to drop into
30-40 or even lower
(ex: Pillbox Hospital, 55 npcs, 30-35 fps
LSC in LS, 47 npcs, me:24/21, 6-5 for each ohter 5 players
35 fps
55 npcs: 20s
)
Stolen Pink car random event again, i teleported and got it but then the
car just flew into the mountain, so the thief got killed
Skull icon NPC still spawns randomly standing still or might be clipped
to underground.
"Ped Workaround" Version Log 1:
-50 FPS w/7 players, 33 npc, 37 veh
18/21 for me
mid 50 FPS, no player around me, Vinewood Boulevard,
intersection, near a Nightclub
Saw Some vehicles 2-5 cars
Raton Cayon bridge, next 1 player, with 3 car scrap,
low to mid 50s
Random Event, North Chumash, with 2 players near,
It was a Stolen Pink car, it got duped, 1 was moving (Red icon)
,1 was not moving on the road, no driver.
Pillbox Hill, near the Weed Guy square, 1 player nearby,
it had 2 intersections, so 1 had cars, about 3-4 cars,
the other one was empty/Ghost Towny.
20/21 (me), 3/3 (other Player)
Davis, Franklin Garage, near Groove Street and Convenient Store, saw 1-2 cars
FPS was in hi 40 to 60s
Same area, near Train tracks, 2 train dupes, only 1 ped vehicle seen
8/21 (me)
3 players, 1 killed 2 with Grenade Launcher, their car exploded, FPS
dipped to 20-30, then back to mid 50 with me and 1 guy
Going up to that area, intersection near Train track, 3 cars seen.
Strip Club intersection, 3 players near me, 2-4 cars seen,
2-3 seems to spawn in distance, less frequently closeby.
FPS: hi 40 to 50s
Strawberry Hospital intersection, 2-3 cars spawn near.
hi 40-60 FPS
31/21 (me), 1/1, 8/2
Road below Vinewood Sign, FPS: 60 to 70,
6/12 (me), 7/5(other)
Invisible Car might have happened as i saw 2nd Player getting out of
his car, got ran over by a car, no driver not moving, popped out.
2 players near, FPS: 60s
Saw driverless car, Chillad/Raton Cayon bridge
Paleto Hospital:
16/21(me), 14/10
Saw 1-2 cars passing by, 1 Player was idling, FPS in 50s
Sandy Shores hospital, 1 player, FPS in 50 to low 60,
Took a while but 1-3 peds from his POV spawned with 3 from mine
31/21, 6/1
Saw Train nearby but its carrier gets duped so it gets "stuck" on top of
the local ones
Explodin Planes due to dupes in Sandy Shore airport, 2 exploded with 1 normal
the Player came by, another one spawned
Saw a Cop icon spawning about 440m away
Went 200m to see a Cop icon, came back to Sandy Shore Airport, saw the Plane
Exploding again.
Went to the Bar nearby, FPS in 50 to 60s. Suddenly dipped to 30s one point
Cypress Area/La Mesa, following 1 player, FPS in 40 to 50s
1 cop icon spawned 400m away
Driverless car spotted but it had 1 passenger.
FPS was in 50-60 following Player in Casino highway, Dipped to
hi 40 with explosion & fire
23/21, 7/7
Following him in a Humane lab car (probably Jewelry store setup) in East
Los Santos to Lester factory, FPS ranges 50-60s
Tried spawning a bunch of Peds with trainer probably more than 20-30,
Z list sync stayed at 23/23
@oldnapalm
Log w/ missions
"Test13" Version Log 2:
**Corpse note:
FPS drop at first, after teleporting to Sandy Shore Hospital, about 7 to 17 then 20,
then rose to high 40 and 50
10(me),4,22,2,3 (Ped)
There were 4 players in here.
Player respawned in Hospital, Bunch of corpses spawned, they werent floating.
11 corpses spawned with 4 of them being Big Fish, 1 Panther.
Turning back, 1 corpse was floating, 19 corpses were spawned
the previous 11 didnt disappear.
This time Z list, one player had 47/1 synced.
It went to 57 then 80/1 synced, FPS is now from hi 30 to hi 20.
Bunch of corpses eveywhere.
Now the Z of the player is 95/4
For the server: 5/114/38
Dis-re-con removed all the corpses and FPS went to low 40
The player kept spawning a bunch of dead peds
He dropped a molotov on the corpses, FPS went to hi 20s
Now his sync: 69/4
**Mission:
Got to play Union Depot with other player,
Teled to Strip Club, it was in 30s at first then got to 50s
Cant see any Swats during the underground fight with him.
But i could see the crew member along Frank.
Synced Z showed: 2/2 to 5/5 for him
Dis-re-con didnt spawn them
Mike fight, i can see some cops
But sometimes none spawns but i can see helis w/o peds
Dis-re-con showed 4 cops in the drive way
Crew member will shoot u.
Couldnt see any cops but 1 time 2 cars roll on driveway
but their cars spit out doors
Getting in the getaway car, since i cant see Mike but only Frank,
sitting on the Front passenger, the Player said Mike was trying to get me out
so got into the back seat.
I can see Taliana/Other Pilot Heli during Trev part at first but i cant see
that 2nd heli, the Lester RPG part, but 3 Buzzards seen.
Final cutscene, i can see 2 Lesters
**Other:
In car with player through South of Denise house area, sudden FPS drop to 20
probably random event (i saw red dot)
He did say he cant see cars, he was driving, only sidewalk peds
Ran into a truck, him in passenger, still said he couldnt see
He said he had -1, i told him to set 20,30. Now he said he could see
We went to Strip Club, FPS is in 40s inside
He also said to see doubles Peds like me.
Player blew himself in Hospital, respawned, bunch of Peds spawning with him
It was me and the player, 1 other joined with 22 synced ped, FPS went from 60 ish to 40s
if i remember, this could be wrong.
I got booted, in passenger with the player, 2 times in 1 instance
Can see 6 cops from player POV, Hawick near Casino bridge, FPS was high 50 to 60
Then another player connected, FPS is now in 40s
Army Base player can see soldiers and cars, mid 30 to 50 fps.
Many tanks caused FPS drop to 30s
Prison, outside, FPS is in mid 30s, 66 NPCS total
44/22 and 24/6 me & him
Mounted weapons from passenger can shoot enemies but anims wont be synced
Went to the grassy area, 40 NPCS, now FPS is 40-50 ranged
**Long stretch Mission:
I can see both Lamar and Stretch during gun store and the Car ride from Ammu to factory now
See 2 Ds in cutscene
Can only see few enemies 1-3 each segment
Can see L and Str during the getaway but
Player tried jacking a car, dead guy is still inside the driver seat
so his body is "left behind". Took a while for him to appear
A cat was on the sidewalk, only i saw it, the other player said
he couldnt.
We returned to Frank's car, there was still a female ped, holding RPG,
floating, walking in the air.
Another player left so she disappeared.
The player reconnected, he can chat with me but its invisible.
Dis-re-con worked.
**Cleaning Bureau Setup:
Cutscene, Haines, Les, Norton visible, saw Haines moving too
but was in stand still anim.
Can see the janitor spawning and see Player tailing him.
**Bureau mission:
Can see cat now, 2 dupes.
Heli part (stealth), i try getting on and but player said it will fail
the mission (Crew abandoned, as Frank's not visible, i'm on his seat)
Fight on roof, no NPCs seen.
Dis-re-con spawned 1 FBI, 1 swat, the corpses spawned too
Occasionally 1 NPC popped out
Burnt buidling, only saw 2 FBI (burnt guys)
I passed near Crew member and was launched away
After zipline to ground, only saw 1 guard, killed him, this corpse T pose
40 FPS now, 2 players w/ me, outside the FIB member.
Can see 2 crew members too.
Final cutscene, no Lester seen.
@oldnapalm If i remember, i could have been 2 peds i've seen so far that was like that. Havent seem many dead peds yet
It was a Remote as it disappeared later. The body was in a lying animation but it was above ground about knee to full leg-length height.
"Test13" Version Log 1:
-20 Empty Server vs -30 Server w/1 Player
Near the Player, near Highway towards LSIA, mid 55 fps
Intersection nearby, near Benny garage, no players now,
at first, i couldnt see cars but eventually it spawned
1-3, at most 5. Z list: was 6-15/23, hi 70 to mid 80s
Drop-top car, gets blinking top, when Player was shooting
at it, with me sitting in it.
This was Vinewood Hills, FPS: hi 70- mid 80
Infinite-door, still happens as i tried to ran through the
Player spawned car, he was not in it though, but the Car
still gets auto-fixed hence, the doors still split out
Saw the Player killing 2 peds in a car, likely the peds are synced.
it was 9-8(or10) ped split between and him, this was hi 50 to 60,
we were driving too
West Vinewood (the Upper road of LS, near an Online Nightclub),
it reached mid 40s, Ped went up 31/21 from (9 before on
the wind part)
Los Santos LSC, low to hi 40, Despite 6/21 (me) and 7/21 (other 1 player),
In a 400m radius (further player), with 1 player in my car, 1player 100m away, about 21
peds, like 6-8 split between 4 player, FPS was low 50
Mission Row, Police station was 40-50 fluctation.
Depending on area in LS, you will get high 40 vs mid 50 to 60
Like below the Rockford Hospital intersection, w/1 player, dipped to low 40
but when you went to the Highway, it was in 50s
A player teleported to me, he was invisible, dis-re-con made him appear.
**Mission:
Testing Simeon "Repo" mission, i can see Simeon and the customer spawning.
I was Michael this time, i saw him killing the Gardener, and my World Jimmy
Saw 2 Traceys, 1 from mine, other from his.
And the Tennis guy and Manda.
The player did kill Jimmy (mine), before entering the house, so i couldnt
see any Jims in his room
Saw Player turning to Michael, him
and Simeon Fighting(just the Simeon Standing, and the Player going towards him)
2 Simeons spawn at one point, probably cutscene,
then FPS dipped to 30s, after his Mission Completed
despite 5 and 7 peds with me and the player.
Back at Mike house, it was hi 60s outside, but in 40s inside
Father/SOn
I could see the Truck with the Boat, but, so i tried dis-re-con
the Truck disappeared but the Player also restarted, so i could see
The Truck again
FPS drop on highway around Fame or Shame stadium, 30 ish
I could see the Truck and Jimmy floating. But the Player restarted
(i hit floating Jimmy once), the truck was invisible, only floating
Jim and enemy (2 guys also floating)
FPS when teleport back to Mike house hi 20 to low 30
There were 6 peds standing still in front of the gate but inside the house
land (2 swats, 2 merryweather, 2 morgue workers).
I started union depot heist, during the underground fight (Aggressive), the Player
said he couldnt see me.
**floating corpses:
1 Floating corpse seen, from other Player seen, it wasnt circling, but still float
The body wasnt on the ground, but it wasnt circling.